Episode 9
Interested In Therapy? Here’s What To Look For With Dr. Nicole Siegfried
We are in a mental health pandemic. Do you struggle with asking for help? How do you know what is the right type of helping resource for you? How do you overcome personal and systemic barriers to seeking mental health care? What characteristics do you look for in a therapist? In this episode, Dr. Diana Hill and Dr. Nicole Siegfried take the mystery and the stigma out of mental health care. Diana shares skills to practice the vulnerability of asking for help despite emotions that may come up.
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Transcript
How do you know when you need a therapist and what are some
Dr. Diana Hill:What should you look for when it comes to finding a therapist?
Dr. Diana Hill:And when should you seek a higher level of care?
Dr. Diana Hill:That's what I'm going to talk about today with Dr.
Dr. Diana Hill:Nicole Siegfried on Your Life in Process.
Dr. Diana Hill:As a therapist, sometimes I need to refer clients to a higher level of care.
Dr. Diana Hill:And until now it's been difficult to find programs that are evidence-based
Dr. Diana Hill:And that's why I'm so excited to be sponsored by Lightfully Behavioral
Dr. Diana Hill:mental health treatment, providing high quality evidence-based programming
Dr. Diana Hill:Compassionately.
Dr. Diana Hill:They treat wide variety of diagnoses, including mood disorders, anxiety
Dr. Diana Hill:health organizations that is built around process-based therapy, which is a
Dr. Diana Hill:The company's seasoned.
Dr. Diana Hill:All female executive team brings over 70 years of experience and
Dr. Diana Hill:For more information, go visit lightfully.com
Dr. Diana Hill:Hi, this is Diana.
Dr. Diana Hill:And this podcast is about living well, living psychologically flexible,
Dr. Diana Hill:And I think a lot of us right now are feeling far from thriving.
Dr. Diana Hill:We're mentally exhausted as we've been sustaining a heightened degree
Dr. Diana Hill:This pandemic has been.
Dr. Diana Hill:Incredibly challenging.
Dr. Diana Hill:There was a New York times article that came out recently
Dr. Diana Hill:. Asking therapists about some of the common reasons why people are coming
Dr. Diana Hill:forefront of people's minds and one in four therapists said that suicidal
Dr. Diana Hill:In general folks reported that they're feeling stuck and stagnant
Dr. Diana Hill:the wait-lists are full and they themselves have been impacted by the
Dr. Diana Hill:So if you're experiencing mental health problems right now, I just want
Dr. Diana Hill:And today I get a chance to talk with Nicole Siegfried, who is
Dr. Diana Hill:She's a licensed clinical psychologist and serves as an Adjunct Assistant
Dr. Diana Hill:And she's worked in mental health for over 20 years and has
Dr. Diana Hill:Nicole believes that recovery is possible for all individuals
Dr. Diana Hill:In this conversation, we talk a lot about some of the reasons
Dr. Diana Hill:especially when you need it most.
Dr. Diana Hill:And we go through some of the characteristics of what
Dr. Diana Hill:You may be surprised by some of them.
Dr. Diana Hill:And then go on to talk about some different treatment options.
Dr. Diana Hill:And stay tuned to the other side of this conversation with Nicole,
Dr. Diana Hill:Just a reminder with your daily practice, you can get a download of a PDF
Dr. Diana Hill:if you go to the show notes and click on the link there, every single episode has
Dr. Diana Hill:so that you can build these processes, these psychological processes into your
Dr. Diana Hill:So I'll see you on the other side with that and enjoy my
Dr. Diana Hill:Take two with Nicole Sigfried we, we tried to record this a week ago and we both
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Yes.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Which is neither of us is boring.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:So, um, we want to talk about this in a much more relatable way that people
Dr. Diana Hill:I think that sometimes therapy and the idea of therapy
Dr. Diana Hill:And so I think we had those hats on and we were trying to explain these
Dr. Diana Hill:And what I'm hoping that we can do today is take a macro level, look
Dr. Diana Hill:How do you know, if you need to go to therapy in the first place, and then
Dr. Diana Hill:And how do you know if you need more than So that's sort of big picture.
Dr. Diana Hill:Uh, but before we do that, I wanted to ask you a question that you asked me
Dr. Diana Hill:And I think it's because I just love your program so much, but you sent out
Dr. Diana Hill:And then you can ask me, ask me mine.
Dr. Diana Hill:But one of them was what is your walk-on song?
Dr. Diana Hill:And another one was what was your first job?
Dr. Diana Hill:So I'm curious about that for you, Nicole.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:
:Oh, those are both good.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:
:Well, so my walkup song, you and I were talking about this earlier that
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:
:And so if I'm thinking about.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:
:Seeing a client or I'm doing clinical work.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:
:My walkup song for that is going to be something much more compassionate
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:
:And so for that, I, what comes to me, which I feel in my heart is one of
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:
:And I think that song just really exemplifies this idea of.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:
:How things are around us are very beautiful.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:
:If we take the time to take them in, um, I myself have trouble with that at
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:
:And, and so it's a good reminder to me of taking a breath before session
Dr. Diana Hill:And when you told that to me at first, you were worried
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Yeah.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Yeah.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Well, because it's hard.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:I think I have to sometimes keep this in check.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:I am really optimistic person, but sometimes, you know, when you're in
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:pain, it's hard to be in the presence of someone that, um, has a lot of hope
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And so I always want to be able to balance.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Being hopeful because I have hope for each client that sits before me and being
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:So, um, I wanted, I want the song to kind of put me in that
Dr. Diana Hill:And it's interesting because some of the research on
Dr. Diana Hill:So you want a therapist that's hopeful and also for you to have hope for the
Dr. Diana Hill:And we can talk more about that, but, so, and then what was your first.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:It's so funny that you asked this because.
Dr. Diana Hill:It's embarrassing.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Well, mine's really embarrassing.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:We just talked about this on one of our team calls.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And so my first job was as a dancer singer in a theme park, um, sort
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:So that was my first job.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:So it's, it was an unusual.
Dr. Diana Hill:Yeah.
Dr. Diana Hill:And then usually one, it probably says something about you
Dr. Diana Hill:So you're the clinical, you're the Chief Clinical Officer.
Dr. Diana Hill:Yeah.
Dr. Diana Hill:You know, large treatment, uh, behavioral health program lightly, and
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:yes.
Dr. Diana Hill:There you go.
Dr. Diana Hill:Well, Yeah.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:for sure.
Dr. Diana Hill:Those two questions, uh, sort of like a
Dr. Diana Hill:the.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Yeah.
Dr. Diana Hill:My walk-on song and actually learned, just
Dr. Diana Hill:Cause my kid plays baseball and they actually this.
Dr. Diana Hill:They actually play a song while they go out onto the field
Dr. Diana Hill:And it's kind of to pump you up and remind you in some ways what
Dr. Diana Hill:And.
Dr. Diana Hill:The one that I sent you was about compassion.
Dr. Diana Hill:And it's a great song called Compassion by Luicinda Williams,
Dr. Diana Hill:But the song that actually just came to me as you were speaking, is a
Dr. Diana Hill:And it's a chant and in the chant, Twameva she chants to the mother, the father, the
Dr. Diana Hill:And I, when I think about therapy, I think about therapy as being so
Dr. Diana Hill:the room between me and my client and a lot more about just this huge,
Dr. Diana Hill:And I feel like, especially right now, we need, we need all those people right now.
Dr. Diana Hill:We need our mother or sister or friend, everybody involved in
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Yes.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Yes.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Um, yes.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:In fact, I mean, it's the, we talk about the COVID pandemic,
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:For many reasons.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Um, our mental health is in the worst place that it's been as
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Um, and so one of the things that's really interesting about that is that
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:So, I think like in 2018, 2019, that the three, let me think of this.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Right?
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:The three main causes of death for young adults were what some people have referred
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And so that was kind of leading up to the pandemic.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And then the pandemic was sort of a flame that ignited those things into somewhat
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And people much smarter than I am.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:If you have dug into, like, what are all of the reasons for that?
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:What has, what has led up to that?
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:What has gotten us where we are in.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:In my mind.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:I just think of it very simply as, um, it's simply that we're in pain,
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And that by itself wouldn't be a problem.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Wouldn't be problematic, but it's the way that we deal with that pain.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:That's getting us in trouble.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And when we look back.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:, where we are just in the evolutionary process, you know, our ancestors
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And that's, what's been passed down generation to generation.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Although that's good.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:It makes great problem solvers.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:It's not exactly helpful in tenderly holding our emotional pain.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:It's almost as though we were having, uh, a collision of sorts of where our.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Advancements in our cognitive abilities.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Our problem solving abilities are really, , interfering with our ability to thrive.
Dr. Diana Hill:I heard Steve Hayes and he has this wonderful
Dr. Diana Hill:And I'll put it in the show notes where he was speaking to a large
Dr. Diana Hill:And in it, he said that psychopathology is energy misdirected, and that
Dr. Diana Hill:to connect and belong yearnings to feel good, but we get narrowed in
Dr. Diana Hill:And that's what I think we're finding right now is that many people are
Dr. Diana Hill:And in a lot of ways, like how do you, how do you cope with this?
Dr. Diana Hill:But we actually really need to be able to do is to adapt.
Dr. Diana Hill:We need to be able to have cognitive flexibility and self-compassion and find
Dr. Diana Hill:But what we tend to do is to kind of silo off and do sort of these old ways
Dr. Diana Hill:it's addictions or isolation or it's other types of experiential avoidance that just
Dr. Diana Hill:And I know that for myself, because certainly I've seen that.
Dr. Diana Hill:During the pandemic, I've seen my own mental health kind of decline.
Dr. Diana Hill:And really probably at its Nadir point was summer 2020, like, like many people.
Dr. Diana Hill:And it's interesting because I, I reached out to some therapists, friends asking
Dr. Diana Hill:And what would they think would be, you know, suggestions for
Dr. Diana Hill:And one of them responded back just by saying.
Dr. Diana Hill:I just think you're lucky if you can find a therapist at this point,
Dr. Diana Hill:So there's like the barriers to treatment to getting treatment.
Dr. Diana Hill:And then there's also just the barriers of access to treatment.
Dr. Diana Hill:In particular, certain groups have a lot less access to therapy and
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Absolutely.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:I love what you said about this idea of our core yearnings and that
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And I think about that too.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:I, I love the way that Steve Hayes describes it.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And, and when I think about, um, sort of how we got there, It's it's this idea
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:with the evolutionary history of where we are emotionally, because
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And that was evolutionarily, adaptive so much so that, like, we just
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:That is just really at the heart of being human.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Connect with others.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And what makes sense to me is that that has been thwarted in many
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And then, like you said, we try to then, um, cope with that or
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Um, in other situations in terms of like problem solving or thinking it through,
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And where it really catches up with us is, like you said, when
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:I mean, so if we think about it, in terms of our ancestors, those ancestors
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:part of a support group, we're much more likely to survive because there
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And so we really, um, you know, that those skills, I suppose, have been passed down.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Been thwarted a lot by just our society, but also by COVID.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:But then when we try to go and ask for help and to seek treatment,
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And the way we get tripped up, we get in our heads and we say things
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Or you should, um, be able to think this through or, um, just don't think
Dr. Diana Hill:I think another one is, is what will people think.
Dr. Diana Hill:Like, what, what will people think if I ask, if I say this is really how,
Dr. Diana Hill:actually that, you know, we, we, we lie as, as a, as a species.
Dr. Diana Hill:We lie all the time, every day we're, we're lying.
Dr. Diana Hill:And actually there's some research that shows.
Dr. Diana Hill:Our lying, prevents, um, real sort of connection between our
Dr. Diana Hill:Cause we don't want to know, and we lie to ourselves, but I know, you know,
Dr. Diana Hill:ups and downs over the course of my life and my own mental health, that's
Dr. Diana Hill:And I know that for my clients too.
Dr. Diana Hill:I mean, I, I know that every session that I'm in, there's
Dr. Diana Hill:And actually I have a good, um, therapist, friend, Meg McKelly that
Dr. Diana Hill:What is it that you felt like couldn't say because we even lie to our therapists.
Dr. Diana Hill:Even if we can get to therapy, we don't tell the truth.
Dr. Diana Hill:And that's part of our, our, our, again, that like that yearning, gone wrong
Dr. Diana Hill:And what if people saw like really how I really am doing, which I
Dr. Diana Hill:Folks are not doing well it's, , we've been bombarded for, you know, we're
Dr. Diana Hill:And people are exhausted.
Dr. Diana Hill:We've been hypervigilant for a long time.
Dr. Diana Hill:We're tired of being hypervigilant.
Dr. Diana Hill:Our lives have been kind of sent sideways.
Dr. Diana Hill:The ways that we connect, we can't connect our travel plans, our vacations, our, um,
Dr. Diana Hill:Um, or really having a, holding a lot of the impact and it's tiring
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:I think that one of the other things that is so scary
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Being able to connect to your therapist or to really open up into, to say the thing
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Is that not only are you afraid?
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Like what are they going to think?
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:But what if they can't hold it?
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:What if they don't really, they still can't see you.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:They don't.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Yeah, they can't validate what you've gone through.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And so I know personally that is something that is a fear of mine.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Um, you know, in my own therapy.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:It's, it's so isolating to hold on to things, but it's even more isolating
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And that, that is it's just vulnerable and it's risky.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And so in seeking therapy, that is.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:That's like the, you know, the, the biggest risk you can take, because
Dr. Diana Hill:Oh, my gosh, you just hit the nail on the head.
Dr. Diana Hill:I, in my reach out to therapists, I also reached out to a friend of mine.
Dr. Diana Hill:Who's been in therapy for a long time and asked her about like what
Dr. Diana Hill:And I asked her what, you know, what are the signs of a good therapist?
Dr. Diana Hill:And she sent me actually the signs of when to run from her therapist.
Dr. Diana Hill:And one of those, one of those.
Dr. Diana Hill:When you say something to a therapist and they cringe or
Dr. Diana Hill:And for her she's she struggles with, um, she struggled with postpartum depression.
Dr. Diana Hill:And there's a lot of things that show up when you have postpartum depression
Dr. Diana Hill:Like, I feel like I could harm my baby.
Dr. Diana Hill:I have worries about that.
Dr. Diana Hill:Or I feel like I can't take care of my baby or I feel like I don't love my baby.
Dr. Diana Hill:Right.
Dr. Diana Hill:And what if you were to tell that to someone and they can't hold.
Dr. Diana Hill:And I think that's where a psychological flexibility on the part of the therapist,
Dr. Diana Hill:Like you need to have a therapist that can stay with you, be present
Dr. Diana Hill:And if you're someone that is supporting another person,
Dr. Diana Hill:It looks scared, but like say, okay, you know, here we are.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:
:I can hold your pain.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:
:And sometimes when, when we're talking about emotional pain, it feels too
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:
:Cause if you then say you, you reach out and you risk trying to share it with
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:
:I mean, the damage that that can do just feels irreparable, um, or I
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:
:a therapist to be able to hold that, but just we as human human to human
Dr. Diana Hill:Hi folks.
Dr. Diana Hill:I want to tell you about a few live events that I'm offering
Dr. Diana Hill:I'm going to be at insight LA on February 11th, online
Dr. Diana Hill:If you are a mental health practitioner, join me at PESI for their Body Image
Dr. Diana Hill:And then finally, I'm offering a workshop with Praxis, continuing
Dr. Diana Hill:So you can join me there.
Dr. Diana Hill:You can check these all out on my event page at Drdianahill.com.
Dr. Diana Hill:So let's talk a bit about, like, how do you know if you should seek therapy
Dr. Diana Hill:I mean, that's a lot of times we say like, oh my gosh, my sister needs a therapist
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Um,
Dr. Diana Hill:someone else in doing it?
Dr. Diana Hill:And then how do you know if you need it or someone.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Well, first of all, one of the things
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:The majority of people who are really struggling and who need therapy, the
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And that is so discouraging to me because we know that early intervention.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Can is really key in trying to create a life of well-being a life worth living.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And so that time, it just feels like last time.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Um, and so I always want to be able to talk to people to say, if you're
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:That's your indicator.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:If you're having to have the discussion with yourself, that is your indicator.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:My husband and I are both psychologists.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And so we joke all the time that our kids are either really well adjusted
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:, but they, they both are, they wouldn't mind me sharing this.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:They both have been in therapy and after they went, they said, This everyone
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And what a world we would live in, if that were the case, you know, um, more
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:even more so, so my first, um, thing I would say to people is if you ask
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Then the answer is probably yes, and we all can benefit from it.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And in many ways, , there are times when our struggle, , it becomes at
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Uh, necessity is it is a true necessity to seek treatment.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And that's when your symptoms really start to interfere with the life that you want.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And I know that, that I, I, you know, I think about how long I've sought
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And I've thought about it just even in thinking about this
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:I got help.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And how long, how many times I talked myself out of it and with really,
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And, um, how many times I really wish I would have gone sooner.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And so, um, when you really feel like it's interfering with your life and the
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And in some ways that's as simple answer.
Dr. Diana Hill:And our approach to therapy is so
Dr. Diana Hill:You know, it used to be sort of like either you have the diagnosis or you've
Dr. Diana Hill:But I think that therapy now is a much broader umbrella where it certainly can
Dr. Diana Hill:you're struggling with severe depression or anxiety, that's interfering with
Dr. Diana Hill:And, and it's really narrowing your life.
Dr. Diana Hill:Then you need to have treatment that, that you, you, you don't do this on your own
Dr. Diana Hill:Right.
Dr. Diana Hill:And so, and getting an evaluation and getting treatment that matches.
Dr. Diana Hill:What, what you're struggling with.
Dr. Diana Hill:So evidence-based approaches and there are, there is a difference between
Dr. Diana Hill:that will, that will target your specific struggles and the goal isn't
Dr. Diana Hill:But really the goal is about how to live a fulfilling life and
Dr. Diana Hill:And I would say that is the goal of all therapy, really to help humans flourish.
Dr. Diana Hill:And what does it mean to flourish for you in your.
Dr. Diana Hill:Which is why I'm super excited about, you know, these process-based
Dr. Diana Hill:And that act is one of them of looking at the underlying processes to living well.
Dr. Diana Hill:And what, what are the processes have changed that.
Dr. Diana Hill:Really promote our optimal wellbeing.
Dr. Diana Hill:And then what are the processes that we get entangled in that keep us stuck?
Dr. Diana Hill:And those very same processes are probably going to be the ones that
Dr. Diana Hill:So that's kind of interesting, right?
Dr. Diana Hill:It's sort of like that, monster is in your, in your head sort of
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And just talking to you, I'm thinking about this sort of
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:the ways that we were talking before of how we've evolved as humans to be these
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And so you're setting up all of these diagnoses and symptoms and these
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:checklistsand trying to identify an underlying disease really falls into that.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And I think misses the, um, misses the point of emotional
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And so.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:I agree with you.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:I think what's beautiful about the process based approaches is instead
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:checklists, it looks more at what are the processes that you're
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And what are some processes that you can engage in that
Dr. Diana Hill:Absolutely.
Dr. Diana Hill:And there's now some cool emerging research behind it.
Dr. Diana Hill:So, uh, Steven Hayes, who's one of the co-founders of act and Stephan Hoffman
Dr. Diana Hill:death star from star wars where it's going to like, have like this big
Dr. Diana Hill:I think it was like 55,000.
Dr. Diana Hill:Research studies and looked at what is it in therapy when somebody is changing,
Dr. Diana Hill:And those are the processes.
Dr. Diana Hill:So for example, if you go on vacation and you come back from
Dr. Diana Hill:There could be a lot of reasons why it could, because you've got
Dr. Diana Hill:It could be because you stopped drinking coffee and you
Dr. Diana Hill:It could be because you got away from work.
Dr. Diana Hill:Maybe you had a better night's sleep.
Dr. Diana Hill:Those would all be potential processes that could contribute to you feeling
Dr. Diana Hill:That help people promote the help people change.
Dr. Diana Hill:And there's a lot of them in act.
Dr. Diana Hill:We look at six of them in particular, but there's a lot of them, but they really
Dr. Diana Hill:And I'd love for you to talk a little bit about, um, some of those
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Yes.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Well, and you said it in a really good way in terms of the ways that
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Um, the ways that we conceptualize.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Who we are ourselves and the ways that we interact with one another.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And so we've really, um, extrapolated in some ways, or maybe even simplified
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And the ways that we look at it are in terms of processes, change associated
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And so with that, being able to attend to the present moment rather than being
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:compassion for your thoughts and being able to separate from your thoughts
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:We were talking about that in terms of this core yearning for belonging
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And so if we can develop toward developing interpersonal connection
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:principles of creating a life that's driven by your values, more so than
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And so emotion, flexibility, and rather than.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Um, emotion, uh, avoidance and dysregulation.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And so we boiled it down to those four categories instead
Dr. Diana Hill:And you could see how something like that would be helpful
Dr. Diana Hill:There's a degree of mindful self-compassion to acknowledge,
Dr. Diana Hill:This is anxiety provoking.
Dr. Diana Hill:And this isn't, you know, this is a normal response to an abnormal situation.
Dr. Diana Hill:And I need to have some, you know, self compassion and common humanity about
Dr. Diana Hill:Uh, and then being able to know our values to live from our values and that
Dr. Diana Hill:on what are some effective ways to deal with anxiety, or maybe start a
Dr. Diana Hill:And ultimately also find that connection with people.
Dr. Diana Hill:And break down these barriers to us, having to be in our hiding holes with
Dr. Diana Hill:We have to keep those under wraps, but really opening and allowing for our
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Absolutely.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Absolutely.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And that combination can really then lead to wellbeing.
Dr. Diana Hill:So, okay.
Dr. Diana Hill:So we've talked a bit about what some of the barriers are to
Dr. Diana Hill:What treatment could look like.
Dr. Diana Hill:And I will say with those processes, those could show up and ACT, but
Dr. Diana Hill:And, um, the therapists that have a theoretical orientation and sort
Dr. Diana Hill:processes underlying wellness, and maybe understand some of the research are
Dr. Diana Hill:But I want to talk to you a little bit because you've
Dr. Diana Hill:know, this, isn't your first rodeo in terms of developing treatment
Dr. Diana Hill:And I'd love for us to talk about like how to find a good therapist,
Dr. Diana Hill:And I want to talk about that from two different angles.
Dr. Diana Hill:One from the angle of actually what the research says, and then another, from,
Dr. Diana Hill:And I can even share some more of what, some of what my friends
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Yes.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Well, you and I we've talked about this before that, when we look at
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:therapy, a lot of times it boils down to aspects of the therapeutic
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:A lot of the weight in the effectiveness of psychotherapy.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And so a lot of times I think that people may look for someone who has a lot of
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And although you definitely want someone who, um, has good, um,
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:You also want someone who is relatable, someone where you're going
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And sometimes that's hard to know, um, you know, looking at psychology
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:which it feels a little bit like, um, uh, online dating or something,
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:I said, okay, I'm going to take the step to see to see as a therapist.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Um, and now I'm going to go see that person.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:You have to be willing to either, if it, if you didn't feel like it worked
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Um, a lot of times, Um, people get discouraged with that first appointment
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And so I always tell people, give it a second appointment a chance
Dr. Diana Hill:Yes.
Dr. Diana Hill:So certainly the therapeutic relationship is like central and
Dr. Diana Hill:You want to trust your therapist, want to feel like you can open up,
Dr. Diana Hill:You want to feel empathy and care and your therapist just needs to
Dr. Diana Hill:So if there's some, like, you know, that's just one of the
Dr. Diana Hill:Predicts better therapy.
Dr. Diana Hill:And like I said before, psychological flexibility of the therapist,
Dr. Diana Hill:call non-specific factors, but it's actually quite specific there it's
Dr. Diana Hill:And yes.
Dr. Diana Hill:Experience does not necessarily map on to outcome.
Dr. Diana Hill:Neither does degree.
Dr. Diana Hill:Neither does gender.
Dr. Diana Hill:Neither does age.
Dr. Diana Hill:Those things don't necessarily predict the, um, effect
Dr. Diana Hill:And another aspect that's kind of interesting about therapist is that
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:That's very validating to me.
Dr. Diana Hill:Validating.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Yes.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:But what that says to me is that people who may experience more self-doubt
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And so what to me might be, you said that your friend gave you a list of like, when
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:behind their name, and hasn't really engaged in trainings or any updates, you
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:learners who are keeping themselves um, competent and on the cutting
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And I think it's those individuals who experienced self doubt that
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Steve Hayes says that experience predicts constant.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:It's not competence and it's not even just an adage.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:It's the research shows this.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And the reason is that experience can sometimes occur in a silo.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And when that happens, you're not necessarily getting feedback
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And so maybe those individuals who experienced self doubt are more likely to
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And so that would be someone you would want to look for I think in a therapist.
Dr. Diana Hill:Another aspect that I think is really important is the therapist
Dr. Diana Hill:And privileged and power in the therapy room, privilege and power and contextual
Dr. Diana Hill:So.
Dr. Diana Hill:For a long time therapy has been very individualistic in nature.
Dr. Diana Hill:Right?
Dr. Diana Hill:Kind of like it's about how you're thinking and it's about how you're
Dr. Diana Hill:impact of things like oppression or stigma or all these other contextual
Dr. Diana Hill:Maybe you're in a workplace environment that's really
Dr. Diana Hill:Right.
Dr. Diana Hill:And.
Dr. Diana Hill:Also how that shows up in the therapy room.
Dr. Diana Hill:So one of those, the other run thing that my girlfriend said was I run,
Dr. Diana Hill:Because there's a positionality there of putting yourself in a position of power.
Dr. Diana Hill:And I think it's so important in therapy.
Dr. Diana Hill:There's many layers of power there's power differentials that we can
Dr. Diana Hill:client of color there's privilege and positionality in that dynamic, And
Dr. Diana Hill:If I have all my credentials on the wall and I'm coming in as an expert,
Dr. Diana Hill:And it's so important that it's the client's goals and it, what the
Dr. Diana Hill:Not the therapist.
Dr. Diana Hill:So that's another thing that you kind of can, it's sort of maybe
Dr. Diana Hill:Pretty, I mean, there's, some of these are kind of intuitive, um, senses of how you
Dr. Diana Hill:Um, like, social action, are they putting themselves in.
Dr. Diana Hill:In that, in that way, that's indicates that they may be that
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Absolutely.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:There may be studies that have been done on this, but in terms of like getting
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:desk, and maybe your chairs up higher and there's this lower, I mean, all of
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:, reflect maybe some of the more inflexibility or
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And so it may be that in those situations, that's like a boundary
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And so it, that armor though blocks connection.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And we're talking about really creating a culture at Lightfully that, that
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:When I think about therapy and we were talking about being seen before.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And I think about this too, for employees, I think.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Our client to come in.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:I went employees to that work with us to feel that way that they feel
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And so being able to take into account our own privilege, our own lens through
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:our clients or allowing them to feel seen, um, is of utmost importance
Dr. Diana Hill:It's, it's an ICU.
Dr. Diana Hill:I care about you.
Dr. Diana Hill:And also I think there's something in therapy.
Dr. Diana Hill:That's about.
Dr. Diana Hill:And I'm not gonna let myself get entangled in it.
Dr. Diana Hill:Probably, I think one of the best therapists that, um, I know I will
Dr. Diana Hill:of my really good friends, she's actually a sports psychologist and
Dr. Diana Hill:She's worked with like athletic, the Olympic teams,
Dr. Diana Hill:As a therapist, you need to have this sort of view where there's enough distance
Dr. Diana Hill:And you have to have that awareness.
Dr. Diana Hill:So it's like, I see you.
Dr. Diana Hill:And I see myself and I see the pattern between us and I see my own
Dr. Diana Hill:And you're juggling all of this at once.
Dr. Diana Hill:And it does take a level of self.
Dr. Diana Hill:So one of the things that I look for in therapist is I want a therapist
Dr. Diana Hill:I don't want to know exactly.
Dr. Diana Hill:You don't have to tell me all the details, but you've been
Dr. Diana Hill:We don't want that, you know, TMI in therapy.
Dr. Diana Hill:You don't want to have an over disclosing therapist, but you
Dr. Diana Hill:They've been through something in their life, or they've
Dr. Diana Hill:So they.
Dr. Diana Hill:I speak from a place of greater depth and also know their own patterning
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Yes, yes.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Yeah.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:They have to be willing to do the same work that we're asking our clients to do.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And, um, that to achieve that level of self-awareness that we're
Dr. Diana Hill:Okay.
Dr. Diana Hill:So we want to talk about, I wanted to talk to you about three things, like,
Dr. Diana Hill:How do you find a therapist?
Dr. Diana Hill:And I will put a list of some of these on, in the show notes, so that you'll be
Dr. Diana Hill:And then the third thing that I wanted to talk to you about is something.
Dr. Diana Hill:Very personal to me, which is something that I care a lot
Dr. Diana Hill:So once a week therapy isn't enough and somebody needs
Dr. Diana Hill:It's like a super hard thing to do into a higher level of care.
Dr. Diana Hill:So I'd love to talk about the different types of levels of care.
Dr. Diana Hill:And the reason why this is important to me is I've been on the side of clients
Dr. Diana Hill:I've experienced it from the realm of running a IOP and seeing just the magic
Dr. Diana Hill:treatment that just, you take out, carve out that space to work really deeply
Dr. Diana Hill:And I've also experienced it as a teenager.
Dr. Diana Hill:I was in a residential treatment and I attribute that time
Dr. Diana Hill:And I'm so ever grateful to a residential treatment for being able to help me.
Dr. Diana Hill:It wasn't the whole recovery process, but really get me started
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Well, I love the way that you're saying that.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:I think that a lot of us bring our own, um, the reason a lot of these things are,
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And, um, I told you this before that I'm also recovered from, um, an eating
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And It was very vulnerable that we talked about this earlier,
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And there were times along the way that my own thinking
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And so, so after you reach out and let's say you're in outpatient therapy, And
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:A lot of times, if we get tangled up with our thoughts again, around that process,
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:So we tell ourselves things like this should have worked.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:There's something I'm fundamentally flawed.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:There's something wrong with me that this isn't working.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:I'm not trying hard enough.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:I'm a failure.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And that kind of keeps people stuck when really the.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:The real answer is that once a week, isn't what you needed.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:I use examples all of the time.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:If someone were to say, you know, you're supposed to take aspirin, Three times
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:It wouldn't, it wouldn't work and you really just needed the
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And so in this situation, the person might need a different dose of
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And so a larger dose of treatment is exactly like you said, it's, it allows
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Um, and to set aside time where you can really accelerate the
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:I tell clients that they get to decide, of how many.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:The doses, the dose is that's one of the things that they are in charge
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:to get, things accelerated to where then you can come back into life and start
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:For many people, that road looks very different.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Some people spend longer in the residential side of things.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And other people, have more of like a day treatment kind of option
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:Like you talked about before, like an intensive outpatient where it just
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:a week where they're able to be back in life, but having the structure to
Dr. Diana Hill:And what I want to say about that is that you don't have to
Dr. Diana Hill:So there's.
Dr. Diana Hill:Like inpatient where you're in a hospital and that would
Dr. Diana Hill:If you were having, you know, medication issues, psychosis, suicidal ideation,
Dr. Diana Hill:Right.
Dr. Diana Hill:And then there's residential treatment as the next level down
Dr. Diana Hill:And then there's intensive outpatient programming and then maybe group
Dr. Diana Hill:And you don't need to know because what you do is you make a phone call to a
Dr. Diana Hill:They do a full assessment on you.
Dr. Diana Hill:And in this really full detailed assessment, they give you a
Dr. Diana Hill:You are free to choose.
Dr. Diana Hill:You are not forced.
Dr. Diana Hill:You are always free to choose what treatment option is best.
Dr. Diana Hill:But they'll give you recommendation based on a lot of experience with a
Dr. Diana Hill:And I would recommend folks, like if you're concerned about somebody else.
Dr. Diana Hill:If you feel like maybe you need a higher level of care, or if you're a therapist
Dr. Diana Hill:Because I think also that's the other thing is sometimes it's a therapist.
Dr. Diana Hill:We also need to say like this isn't working anymore.
Dr. Diana Hill:I care about you.
Dr. Diana Hill:And because I care about you so much, I want you to get more treatment.
Dr. Diana Hill:Pass this podcast.
Dr. Diana Hill:Because sometimes it's just helpful to hear these different options and it can
Dr. Diana Hill:more about different levels of care, learn more about getting therapy, learn
Dr. Diana Hill:So we hope that you pass this on to folks that you think would benefit from this.
Dr. Diana Hill:And there's no forcing.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:You don't have to be 100% ready to change.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:I think that's another reason people wait to, to seek help.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And so you can just have the idea of.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:That thing you want things to be different and that's enough to reach out.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:You can come in in a state of ambivalence.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:In fact, the majority of people do..
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:And that's what we work through with people.
Dr. Nicole Siegfried:When they come in this database, ambivalence that they may be
Dr. Diana Hill:Yeah, there's a whole therapy approach just to that
Dr. Diana Hill:So if you've got a good treatment center or a good therapists, they'll,
Dr. Diana Hill:Absolutely.
Dr. Diana Hill:Okay, Nicole.
Dr. Diana Hill:Well, thank you so much for spending time with us today.
Dr. Diana Hill:You're such a wealth of information and such a delight and, um, What a wonderful
Dr. Diana Hill:We need our family and we need each other.
Dr. Diana Hill:We need ourselves, we need our highest selves to get through this thing.
Dr. Diana Hill:And, we hope that this podcast is helpful to you.
Dr. Diana Hill:And if it is, please share it, please pass it along.
Dr. Diana Hill:In today's discussion with Nicole Siegfried.
Dr. Diana Hill:We talked a lot about internal barriers to seeking therapy, things
Dr. Diana Hill:And I want to say that there's awesome.
Dr. Diana Hill:A lot of external barriers to seeking therapy in terms of access to therapy,
Dr. Diana Hill:has been telemedicine and teletherapy, which has allowed more people to gain
Dr. Diana Hill:So it's not all bad news.
Dr. Diana Hill:Nicole and I also talked about characteristics of a good therapist,
Dr. Diana Hill:If you go down to this week's Daily Practice and click on that, you can
Dr. Diana Hill:includes things like psychological flexibility in a personal skills,
Dr. Diana Hill:You want a therapist that shows hopefulness and uses evidence-based
Dr. Diana Hill:And has a healthy amount of self-doubt.
Dr. Diana Hill:Nicole described some core processes and thriving that map onto the
Dr. Diana Hill:Areas that she talked about were mindful self-compassion, your ability to step
Dr. Diana Hill:Those are some of the key processes that Hayes and colleagues have found
Dr. Diana Hill:And then finally, we talked about how to find a higher
Dr. Diana Hill:And what are the different types of levels of care.
Dr. Diana Hill:For this week's homework, I want to take on a central theme of today's
Dr. Diana Hill:So here's what I want you to do.
Dr. Diana Hill:It's quite simple, but powerful.
Dr. Diana Hill:Number one, choose a problem that you could use some help with that maybe
Dr. Diana Hill:now, because you've been entangled in thoughts about needing to do it on your
Dr. Diana Hill:And I want you to practice some acceptance, practice, some mindful
Dr. Diana Hill:Talk to somebody about it.
Dr. Diana Hill:And then number two, reach out and offer help to somebody
Dr. Diana Hill:It can be in the form of a phone call, a walk, a meetup, but try to embody
Dr. Diana Hill:We can be good support systems to each other.
Dr. Diana Hill:We can practice our interpersonal skills, our awareness of our own
Dr. Diana Hill:And some degree of humility.
Dr. Diana Hill:Okay.
Dr. Diana Hill:So try out those two things this week.
Dr. Diana Hill:Let me know how it goes for you.
Dr. Diana Hill:I want to know.
Dr. Diana Hill:And remember that experience does not equal competence.
Dr. Diana Hill:So I need to know your feedback on what is helpful to you and what is not
Dr. Diana Hill:So send me your feedback at podcast@YourLifeinProcess.Com.
Dr. Diana Hill:Take care.
Dr. Diana Hill:Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Your Life in Process.
Dr. Diana Hill:When you enter your life in process, when you become psychologically
Dr. Diana Hill:If you like this episode or think it would be helpful to somebody, please leave
Dr. Diana Hill:have any questions, you can leave them for me by phone at (805) 457-2776 or by
Dr. Diana Hill:This podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only.
Dr. Diana Hill:And it's not meant to be a substitute for mental health treatment.
